Tean Stealth Disco Podcastcon 2006

PodcastCon 2006 UK debrief

Tean Stealth Disco Podcastcon 2006

Wow…it’s 7pm Sunday and I’m still feeling the aftershock of the PodCastCon 2006!

Overall I had fun but had mixed feelings about the conferences themselves – more fun, interesting interactions and conversations was had out of them than in, sadly.

I arrived at 12pm – with jetlag from San Francisco flying in at 8:30am the previous day I was unlikely to make the 10am start! The Night Nurse crew had been and gone, and had gone down the pub…it was a ll slightly weird since I crashed the Web2.0 conference in SF and this was a different scale, although similar in some ways with the amount of podwhoring and people trying to sell you stuff…

In full flow was the business conference, I’d missed the creative conference (where apparently many people were scoffing at Brad Gibson’s assertion that all podcasts have to be 30mins or less, everyone I spoke to mentioned it interestingly without me asking…wish I’d been there to point out my 3,000+ subscribers feel differently!). The business conference seemed pretty boring, which wasn’t really a surprise since I don’t run Radio Clash as a business, with one of the speakers droning on about Gardener’s Weekly I left pretty soon after. I was looking forward to the Citizen Journalist and Music conferences that afternoon though.

Met up with the Night Nurse Show in the pub, who were in full argument sorry team discussion but it was good to see Natasha, Stefan and John even though John and then Natasha disappeared shortly after due partly to the excesses of the night before, but also the unengaging nature of the conferences themselves.

Rob from Top of the Pods (and in his new Podshow capacity) was there interviewing people with the really nice Gill Mills (who does Freelance Hellraiser’s podcast and is an old friend of Grant McSleazy – small world!) and I spoke to them later about Radio Clash and licensing and mashups, which you might see on the Podshow PodcastConUK page (no I’m not signing before you ask!)

Had fun disrupting the Night Nurse interview with a “HELLO MUM!” sign and Scott did likewise with “I AM A GAY!” on mine…along with the Stealth Disco video crowd, media guerilla disruption seemed to be the order of the day in an event packed with corporate and advertising messages.

So lunch over it was the Citizen Journalist conference – something I wanted to see because of John Buckley of Dissident Vox was chairing. Although Chris Vallance from the BBC (Radio 5) was entertaining, I found this disappointing because they’d gotten old-media names to speak about citizen journalism, which focused on audience participation and old-media using citizen journalists, rather than what most of us do which is bypass the old broadcast media and produce our own shows.

With all the panels far too much talking from the panel and not enough audience interaction, and when there was interaction, many of the people asking questions were either re-iterating previous questions, doing veiled plugs bigging up themselves or taking far too long and rambling. Several of the questions I was thinking ‘and what is your point?’ – in fact one of the best moments for me in the Music conference was when the guy from Magnatune bit back at the Nokia guy’s veiled plug for Loudeye and impenetrable consultese (‘what’s your value chain?’) with a barbed comment – I was one of the ones who clapped…it was bollocks and against the ethos and clear-speaking of podcasting.

This raises an organisational issue with the conference – it was very difficult to get to ask a question even raising your hand several times, others raising their hand later seemed to get asked before you (you can’t physically keep your hand up for 5-10-15 minutes!) and some of the questions should have been kept short or vetoed by the chair as being answered before (think of Question Time and how David Dimbleby interrupts to see what I mean, it’s not ‘polite’ but it keeps things moving).

A request for next year, if PCCUK2007 happens is maybe use an unconference format or have chairs who have more experience of moving things along (this is not a criticism of John Buckley or the other chairs, I spoke to him after and it was his first time and he did a great job; he did try and move it along but I think the format made it difficult, as well as him being the lone citizen journalist and having to hold up that corner too – in my former life in consultancy I was trained that the chair (or facilitator as they call them) shouldn’t really have to speak apart from helping the proceedings along, or have to provide an alternate view, the audience/panel should cover those bases).

After was an open session, and later some folk from Jimmy Golding (not my bag) and after chatting to Adam Curry outside with Scott (he came out for a smoke with Gill, he remembered us from the Bricklayers Arms earlier in the year) then the music conference chaired by Martin of Green Dragon, I was really looking forward to this, but it turned out mostly to be a velied plug for the Podsafe Music Network and to frighten people with scare stories about being sued by the PRS…again I wanted to ask a question and couldn’t, because I have been C&D’d by the MCPS-PRS in the past as a bootlegger, but also not had any hassle with Radio Clash (touch wood) and knew this to be total crap from my experience and others in the bootleg/mashup community who have had likewise…but again I was overlooked or missed.

Donna from Amplifico did talk very interestingly though on the effect on podcasting on her band, which was cool, and I liked John Buckman from Magnatune who knew his stuff and wasn’t afraid to bite the said Nokia person and then talk about how ringtone and mobile music providers have either ripped labels off or not provided them with stats like iTunes does! But not really podcasting related…
Nicole Simon from Cruel To Be Kind raised a good question about GEMA, the German rights body that is causing a lot of aggro to musicians and DJs in Germany, but otherwise it got dogged down in a podsafe-lovein and talk of PRS, ASCAP and SESAC et al, mostly scare stories for commercial bodies, which doesn’t apply to free non-profit music podcasters.

Actually that was the tone of the conferences, very fixated around making money, or old media bodies, or plugging various projects that the actual discussion suffered I think.

After the conferences was a great band called The Shakes who although David Bowie might have a few questions about their podsafe hit ‘Liberty Jones’ (‘All the Beautiful People’ anyone? Sorry you can’t take a bootlegger anywhere, I know!) were a quality band, with a funny frontman who could seamlessly work over any technical issues and have fun with it…very Long Knives spiky power pop/punk, which is quite big at the moment, and reminded me of Franz or Maximo Park in places…not as finished yet but I reckon they’ll go far just on their lead singer alone…

And then was the showing of the stealth disco video which I’d already been given a sneak preview of and saw them do Rob (I appear in the background at the 2min mark) and the last one with our Scott live! WOO! Very funny…

And after the best part – the pub! I think a lot of people were like – ‘who are you?’ but then talking them quite a few were listeners and fans – so shout outs go to Tom of Archaeocast, Linda from Philadephia who liked the Ivor Cutler show, Nicole Simon of Cruel to be Kind, Conrad Slater (dressed like a space victorian pimp, you’re a strange guy :-P) of Spain films and also got to meet Phillip Holland aka Twinkelboi who was a great laugh (and when he becomes a famous superstar my one claim to fame is that my podcast was the first he ever listened to ;-))! He was interviewing a drunken me and Scott and we suggested he interview Adam Curry – he was scared but we put him up to it, and he did! Also he filmed me getting back at RegularJen and Scott for the Stealth Disco – which hopefully will be posted at some point…also finally got to say hello to CC Chapman and Phil from Bitjobs, somehow we always manage to miss each other at these events!

I’ve also had a drunken flashback – myself, Twinkelboi and Scott recorded a podcast in the pub for Top of the Pods with Rob…oh dear I wonder if that will ever see the light of day? It was rather, err, rude…t’was just before the Wives and Girlfriends of Podcasters one…
Sadly according to this post that 3 of the gang are not doing this next year cos of aggro and the work involved…so thanks for this event guys, it must be a lot of work!

I think if 2007 does go ahead, I’d add that the corporate/company product encroachment of the event (not talking about the sponsors, but the conferences) spoiled the conferences for me…an unconference or BloggerCon approach would work better for me, but probably wouldn’t be acceptable to sponsors…it may be an unsolvable problem, but the endless plugging from everyone (rather than just talking to me about their shows or work or services, which would be fine) got to me…you do disservice to an important forum like a conference by using it as a blatant advertising tool…it’s vulgar and rather easy to spot, be it in a question, a panel member, or conference theme.

Photos are available here from CC Chapman and Neil Ford and others: http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/podcastconuk2006

Comments

12 responses to “PodcastCon 2006 UK debrief”

  1. eric k avatar

    Not wanting to ask questions for fear of legal retribution – gosh, is that deja vu I hear whistling past me?

    From your report, I surmise that one thing the con could do to improve their diversity and appeal is include some of the “illigal” podcasting majority(?) in the panels and discussions – from your report it seems the speakers were all too closely aligned in method if not in content, which makes for a party political broadcast, not a conference.

    If you want interesting debate, you have to make sure the extremes are represented – Which is, hey, one surefire reason why I ended up at Web 2.0 – also one reason why Tony Benn was, and I hope still is (don’t have a TV no more) a “question time” mainstay, hehe…

    If the podcasting top-tarts think that the way to attract capital is to present a united front, they’re badly mistaken – investors are well savvy enough to see through that, and the trouble that “toeing the party line” will eventually cause, especially when there is *no* party line, just a bunch of makeweight safety (aka “we’re not dodgy, honest”) clauses.

    Still, it’s easy to comment from the outside. One hopes that lessons are being learned, whether in the halls or in the pub – after all, thats the point of a conference, isn’t it?

  2. timbearcub avatar

    I hope so…I did feel that with the UK Podcasting Association (who originally said they’d push the point of mashups with the PRS, and are now selling t-shirts with the old tape-cross and bones ‘Podcasting is SELLING music – and it’s legal’) and others that the podcasters who don’t toe the legal line (or company line, such as Podshow) were a bit excluded…partly probably my fault but I was in discussion about speaking then heard nothing back, and couldn’t get to ask questions on the day, so I guess I was in part.

    Who’s fault (mine, theirs, total chance) I don’t know, but it didn’t feel inclusive, especially when a WHOLE PANEL was pushing something like the Podsafe Music Network….that’s not discussion, it’s propaganda.

    Anyway Eric – hope you’ve recovered after SF 😀 Glad to see you post on here! At some point the show will be up…as soon as I feel less jetlagged/partylagged!

  3. John Buckman of Magnatune avatar

    HA! I’m really amused that you enjoyed my slamming the cell phone companies. *Really* they have been total thieves when it comes to ringtones, reporting only about 10% to the collection societies of what they say they sell in their press releases.

    One thing that I thought was cool about the Nokia guy, though, is that when I talked to him afterwards he was totally anti-DRM and pro-open-standards, for example their podcast list comes from digitalpodcasts.com — a site anyone can submit to, and they don’t have any DRM in their phone, just mp3s. It’s too bad he didn’t focus on how DRM is bad for business.

    re: citizen journalism, I totally agree, conference organizers always seem to invite old established names to discuss the things that are going to destroy them. Well, except for Suw Charman, who was on that panel, who I think is fab, and she definitely had some barbed things to say (Suw also runs the Open Rights Group, FYI, which I’ll pimp for her since she didn’t)

    – John of Magnatune

  4. pete (with the blue hair above) avatar
    pete (with the blue hair above)

    Just a really minor point, dude – it’s 2006, not 2007 🙂

  5. timbearcub avatar

    I’m ahead of everyone else – I’m already in 2007..talking from the future (oops). It’s changed…

    John – yes I’m surprised Suw didn’t make more of Open Rights (surprised she wasn’t on the music panel talking about copyright) since they do a lot in the digital rights domain; sadly I missed their conference on the 14th being in SF. Glad Nokia doesn’t have DRM, and love their interest in podcasting…just surprised some of their staff ask questions in gobbledygeek…;-)

  6. Twinkleboi avatar

    Phillip Harding? lol! It’s Phillip Holland, or was, It’s now Toby Dylan

    I sound schitzo!

  7. timbearcub avatar

    Oops I am a bear of little brain….I’m always wrong on my podcast but I have the voice of AUTHORITAAAAY so people miss it….I liked you podcast btw, can’t wait for the AC one, dreading the one with me rather drunk if you use it…

    It’s changed now…well then it was Phillip Holland…

    Toby Dylan? When did you change that? Stagename!

  8. Dean Whitbread avatar

    “the UK Podcasting Association (who originally said they’d push the point of mashups with the PRS, and are now selling t-shirts with the old tape-cross and bones ‘Podcasting is SELLING music – and it’s legal’)”

    UKPA didn’t say anything like that – I did, and it was a personal view. My take on copyright and the current music situation are on my blog http://deanwhitbread.com/blog/ – see the Andy Warhol example.

    Anyway – how do you know we haven’t raised the issue of mashups with the PRS? At In The City – which is more purely focussed on music – I talked at length about copyright and how in its current form it isn’t working on the “Podbashing” panel – http://ukpodcasters.org.uk/podcast/podcast.html – listen here…

    2. We made sell t-shirts to sell them to raise money for our non-profit org – we had quite a few designs but calculated that we’d sell more of that one.. and this is one sell-out which we definitely wanted!!

    UKPA’s remit is to protect members’ rights and promote podcasting – if you join, then we can legitimately work for your interests and since it’s only £3 a month for private non-commercial podcasters, why not join?

  9. Dean Whitbread avatar

    Just in case you can’t be arsed to follow the link I wrote:

    Re: podcasting licensed music. I want to make commercial podcasts which use the same repertoire as radio and tv; I want to pay a fair fee for this. But I will not accept any artistic or creative restrictions in my usage, and this includes my right to quote, mix, make parodies, mashup, collage, and generally mess about creatively with music. Why? Because it is a perfectly legitimate form of creative expression, enjoyed by fine artists, classical composers, street DJs, broadcasters, film-makers, my 13 year old nephew, and creative people everywhere on the planet. Without it, culture is stultified, and music, art, film, doesn’t move on.

    I refer the reader to the famous case of Andy Warhol’s Brillo Boxes.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20061001181433/http://www.artquest.org.uk/artlaw/copyright/dearimages.htm

  10. timbearcub avatar

    OK I understand it was a personal view, but why when asking questions during the music conference did you not raise this? It seemed very one sided discussion – it would have been better with a few people like yourself raising examples like the Andy Warhol one. As it was it sounded like a PRS-scare tactic and a PMN advert.

    I knew you and others were raising the issue with the PRS – it was discussed a year ago – but it had gone very quiet – I’d not seen posts about it on Britcaster and I checked a while back…hence my comment.

    Also not listened yet to the Podbashing podcast, but looking at the post talking about what was discussed would’ve been also really useful for the music conference I think? I didn’t know the UKPA was podcasting this, let alone being there (although I dimly remember you mentioning it). I’d have loved to been at In the City but can’t afford the £500…

    An aside: Oh they had someone from Wiggin on that panel, I built and animated their recruitment website 😉 http://www.wiggin.co.uk/recruitment/
    Funny story about their website, they wanted to use an iPod for ‘values’ and the original version had it in, but had to alter it because they might be sued by Apple 😀

  11. Dean Whitbread avatar

    Generally speaking, we email members (now that we have quite a few) rather than use Britcaster to make announcements, and/or blog stuff that people need to know.

    Best way to avoid the £500 is: get invited to be on a panel!

    Personally: I’ve yet to use ANYTHING from the PMN.

    Funny re: Wiggin.

  12. John B avatar

    I agree with many of the comments made about conference format here. I do think some of the problems inherent in panel discussions at conference events have to do with the reverence the audience show for the panel.

    I know from talking to my panel beforehand, that they were pretty keen to say little and listen much. What would have been cool would have been a frank exchange of ideas, not just opinions. Sadly it was mostly opinion, and a lot of it was quite predictable.

    Speaking about the panel I was on, as soon as we started with the “fact-checking” question I felt we were going down the wrong path. If anyone has ever listened to my show they’d know I sweat buckets to check my facts. That may not be true in general (I don’t know) but what’s the point in slamming the citizen based stuff when it’s barely out of nappies…?

    Ah well everyone has an opinion. 🙂

    Everyone knows that mainstream media is biased as hell and doesn’t always print objective truth, so it’s a pointless circular debate to begin a discussion with. That’s not intended as a criticism of the guy who made that particular point, it’s perhaps a reflection of the level of media training “we the people” have, our reluctance to do any real research and our reverence for established sources.

    To my mind it simply isn’t about “us vs them” where events like PCCUK are concerned. Whatever the agendas of the real elite(s) in our societies, you can be damn sure none of them turned up at Podcastconuk on Saturday. All I saw were a bunch of (fairly) ordinary people interested in podcasting. Sure there were people selling stuff, but so what, there was no weapons grade plutonium or DU on sale. Unless there was a back-room I missed(!)

    Personally I’ve expended a shed load of energy trying to get a conversation going on all fronts about what participatory media is. I’m really interested in how we can get more of the voices from the margins into the mainstream centre of the conversation.Currently though we live in a world where certain paradigms, world-view’s and opinions are NEVER going to be give a popular airing. At least not one that isn’t designed to ridicule or marginalize them. That’s the way the game is set-up, until we wise up that’s not going to change.

    I think “we” the audience are just as much responsible for that lack as “they”. As long as we’re too lazy to do the work, ask the questions, and check the facts ourselves, we will always be vulnerable to flim-flam and snake-oil. The reason the mainstream media are still the mainstream is because they avoid fighting amongst themselves and get on with making sure they suceed at what they are doing.

    It tends to be the case that much of what passes for debate/conversation in our culture focusses on fairly trivial or maginal issues. How many conversations do you hear at technology conferences about civil liberties/dataveilance/freedom? Aren’t these are supposed to be the intelligent/saavy and technology literate people!?

    Ultimately (for me anyway) it’s more about individuals than groups. It’s just a lot easier to relate that way. I accept that some people like to be part of the herd, but when the herd is facing the wrong way or listening to the wrong guy, I’d rather plow my own furrow and head for the gate into the next field.

    Apologies if I wandered off topic.. 😉

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